where do we draw the line?

I've been thinking a lot lately, especially with this Pastor in florida who wants to burn the koran, where do we draw the line? Where do we stop trying to show love, grace, and forgiveness and begin to tell people how stupid they are? This isn't just towards one group. i see conservatives who will jump that the chance to inform some how wrong they are for not following the same beliefs or doctorines. Then I see liberal belivers who always speak of showing love except towards the conservative christians. They treat the conservative christians like the conservative christians treat everyone they disagree with. I see talk of grace all through out scripture, and I also see Jesus openly calling out faults of Jewish religious seemingly with no concern of feelings. I do believe it's very possible to show someone love, and in turn tell them how ridiculous they are being, but, personally, the only time I truely feel that it is effective is when there is a pre-existing relationship with the ridiculous behaving person that you intend to keep in tact through and after calling them out. I'm not saying I'm right, I'm simply saying that's the only time I've seen such confrontation be effective. Truth is a powerful thing. Like a knife, in the hands of some one who's angry and has ill intent a lot of damage can be some, but in the hands of someone with good intentions harmfull things can be removed.

I'm not posting this in a sense of taking sides I'm posting this in the midst of my on quest for what the proper place is. Maybe there isn't just one right place. Maybe some people are supposed to be brutal in their words, while others are to be gentle and reserved. Maybe God is in both.

I hear so much arguing any more and often I find myself partly on both sides. That frustrates me a little cause i feel just indecisive, but at the same time it's always been who i am. I have a habbit of arguing sides i don't agree with simply for the sake trying to get others to see outside of their own story.

I'm posting this simply to share my journey with those who for some reason seem to care, and to get feedback to learn from. To get me to see outside of my own story.

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where do we draw the line?

National Day of Prayer

Soooo, we're losing the National Day of Prayer. If you haven't looked into it here's the facts:

We're not. I was completely thrown when I first heard the news about the day of prayer, and should have known that people don't bother looking into these things, especially after the Orca, that WASN'T SHAMU, killed someone at seaworld, and NO ONE knew the facts. The only thing that happened was that President Obama isn't having a ceremony at the White House for the day of prayer. The ONLY president to have a ceremony at the white house for the day of prayer was George W. So Obama is only doing what every other president other than GW did.


I've seen various responses to the rumors from the expected outbursts of disagreance, to rebuttals at the outbursts. One rebuttal caught my attention, the person commented saying if you're only concerned about praying 1 day a year there's a problem. It's a good argument. Now were the national day of prayer really at stake then there might be more to say to the rebuttal, but it's not so there isn't.

What bothers me about this whole thing is that I saw very little to no love from Christians on this matter. What I did see were plenty of cutting remarks, anger, frustration, and ignorance of the issue at hand.

"If I speak the languages of men and of angels, but do not have love, I am a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so that I can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I donate all my goods to feed the poor, and if I give my body to be burned, but do not have love, I gain nothing."

National Day of Prayer

The fence

My church has a few of these people. I'm sure you know the type, they're everywhere really. The type that insists on telling you what you're doing wrong, but not on serious issues but rather on pointless subjects. These people pop up everywhere, but seem especially prominent in church. I guess the term for them is legalistic. It feels as if these individuals can't wait for a moment to unleash their understanding of scripture in accordance with how others aren't living up to it. This seems to mostly happen from older traditionalist people to younger people, at least in my church. One of the favorite subjects of the people in my church is wearing hats inside the church building. Apparently this is extremely up there on the sin scale (yes, there is a scale. I believe it goes, blasphemy, murder, homosexuality, wearing a hat during service) Now I'm not saying that christians shouldn't hold each other accountable, but I believe you should have a pre-existing relationship with someone if you're going to correct them on something. It also may be a good idea to fully understand what you're correcting someone about before you speak up. Such as the hat thing, I asked someone why it was disrespectful, and the only answer I got was, "it just is" which isn't sufficient enough for me. That's language that, to me, says, "These are the rules. Follow the rules and then you'll be accepted." It's behavior modification. Behavior modification doesn't seem to be the way of Jesus to me. Behavior modification is about changing from the outside in, Jesus is about changing from the inside out. If you hold to these types of rules, that's ok, but you can't force those rules onto others. Now the legalistic people are one end of the spectrum, or at least they think they are. These are people who are judging the legalists. This is often the younger generation towards the older. They take great pleasure in attempting to bring legalists down to size. Are they really on the other side though. Sure in many ways they're different, but in the end, someone's still point fingers and making accusations. I've been on both sides of the fence, and neither one works. Why? There's no love. In 1 corinthians 13 Paul starts to list things that he could do, but are meaningless without love. You can convince someone to adhere to the way you believe, but if there's not love it means nothing. Why? Because if there's no love there's no God. He who does not love does not know God. For God is love - 1 John 4:8

The fence

The war of Zion

It's not really a secret but if you weren't aware already, I'm one of the outlaw preachers. What is an outlaw preacher? Pastor Nar explained it to me something like this; a group of people, not necessarily preachers, who believe in the sufficiency of the love and grace of God. In one of my attempts to make a twitter friendly definition I put it this way. "There are those who would shun anyone who claims that Jesus loves EVERYONE no matter what. We are the shunned #outlawpreachers" Another part of the outlaw preachers that has stood out to me is that we don't all agree with each other, on a lot of things. We argue, debate, discuss, but at the end of the day we still love each other. Like a big twitter-related family.


A few weeks ago the waters were stirred by an individual wishing to join the Outlaw Preachers. Ok, so stirred is an understatement. The waters were smacked violently such as a toddler trying to escape a bathtub.
It began innocently enough. He came in claiming to look for community, and slowly it started. First an outburst at one person, then a claim (and seemingly his big point) that the outlaw preachers only accept those they agree with. Now it's escalated to a relentless barrage of insults, and "calls to repentance"
The responses have been all over the map. Some have just silently backed away, blocked him, and just ignored him. Some attempt to reason with him, others threw insults back at him. Some tried to show him love and embrace him regardless. No matter what the response the end outcome continually seems the same, more insults, more "calls to repentance"

Even my own reactions have varied across the map, I tried the reasoning, I tried returning the insults, I tried ignoring, and then went to blocking and keeping silent for the most part. Typically I'm all for stirring the pot. Without stirring the pot stagnation sets in. True growth doesn't come without adversity. But to simply call this adversity would be like calling a tank, a go-kart. Even still a big part of me embraces this situation.
Through all this I know I will come out a more patient person. Patience is like a muscle, you push it to it's limit, rest, and the next time that limit takes a little bit longer to get to.

I've also received a new appreciation for some of the Outlaws. MojoJules in particular, who decided to converse with the individual about homosexuality. That conversation completely changed my outlook on her, and I have a new respect and appreciation for the way she handled the conversation.


This whole situation makes me think of a couple things.
1.) How much truth is in his words? I'm not asking if he's right, but is there ANY truth. I feel that when someone throws these types of accusations the first response should be to examine ourselves. We become blind to our own flaws at times. Covering them up with excuses, good reasons, just causes, and at times even scripture. I find myself in this type of position at times, and it bothers me. [Example: when Rick Warren was saying nothing about the Uganda bill many reacted including myself. When I saw his first response, that he didn't have to let media and bloggers know what he was doing, I began hurling insults along with many others. I felt completely justified in it, until I hung out with my friend Sam. Sam asked " So since Rick Warren's not speaking out to love gays in Uganda, you just insult him? And then expect that to make him want to speak out?" Sam's words cut me in a way only a close friend can, and should. After that my thought became, maybe insulting RW isn't any more the way of Jesus than I felt his reaction to the Uganda bill was.] If I refuse to step back and look at myself I'm only acting out of pride. So then the question must be asked (and some are asking it)
2.) Are the outlaw preachers really intolerant of those they don't agree with? This is hard to really answer because we're all individuals and react differently to things. I have seen some intolerance. I've also seen what would look like intolerance to someone who wasn't around the OP long enough.
I know myself as well as others have tried to explain that not all the Outlaw Preachers agree with each other, and we've had no problem fitting in. Though to be fair I haven't spoken up about all of the things I disagree with. Mainly because I'm not passionate about them. Things like homosexuality. Personally I feel it is a sin. I don't however feel that it will make you burn in hell any more than my own sins will make me burn in hell. I don't feel that God loves homosexuals any less than he loves straight people. I never bother to speak up about it because I don't feel purpose in it, and the only reason I am now is to drive a point. If after this post I become rejected by the outlaw preachers, or get a barrage of e-mails, tweets or comments lashing out at me, or telling me how wrong I am... Then Zion is right.

And if you're reading this Zionfreak, please know I love you. I'm sorry for insults I've thrown at you. They weren't productive, nor in love. In the same though, I have blocked you on twitter because my patience only goes so far and for now it is resting. Also I can only handle so many tweet in a day and you tweet A LOT :-)

The war of Zion

Ok to say merry christmas?

   You're not going to believe this! I know I had a had time with it when I first realized it. The bible does not say anything about Christmas! I know! It's crazy! So many Christians get offended when they can't proclaim a holiday that their religion created. The bible mentions a lot of holidays and festivals, but Christmas is not one of them. Now, so that I can cover my tracks and not make too many people mad, let me explain a little. I don't think Christmas is wrong. I don't think it's wrong to say merry Christmas. I don't think it's wrong to decorate for Christmas, or to give gifts. I do however think it's wrong to respond with pride when anyone questions our celebration of a God of love.
   I remember when I used to work at Macy's a few years ago, and they started displaying upside down Christmas trees. I thought it was a clever concept, but one employee disagreed. Her comment was, "What are they going to do next, Hang Jesus upside down at Easter?" She, as well as many Christians, was unaware that many Christmas traditions came from pagan origins. Not to mention she came across as a cocky jerk. Christmas was originally a pagan feast that, thanks to the catholic combining church and state somewhere around 313 AD, began to become integrated into religions celebrations. So it wasn't until a couple of centuries after Jesus and his disciples that Christmas as we know it began to come into the picture. Which I find interesting because there's a billboard near me that says "It's ok to say "Merry Christmas" - Jesus" These billboards annoy me almost as much as the cheesy signs in front of church's do, but I'll blog about that another time.
  So is it wrong to celebrate Christmas the way we do? Are we sinning by doing so? I don't think so. But the big thing is to not lose sight of love though all of these traditions we have. That's the true concept behind Christmas. Jesus come wouldn't be as meaningful if it wasn't for love. People get all worked up about "taking Christ out of Christmas" and degrade those who disagree, and in the process they take love out of Christmas. 1 John 4:8 says that God is love. You can leave Christ in the word Christmas all you want, but when you remove love is when you're truly taking "Christ out of Christmas"


not really related to this blog post exactly, but kinda funny

Ok to say merry christmas?